So what have I got in store for you today? My guest Carsten Busch is a German born, Dutch raised, Norwegian working and English speaking curiosity – a while ago he released a book called Safety Myth 101 – Musings on Myths, Misunderstandings and More. Now apart from his unashamed use of alliteration, it caught my attention because I had never heard of anything like it before – how many time have we had an interaction with someone in our organisation and thought “you’ve got it all wrong, that’s a myth, it’s just not right?” and we’ve stumbled over our argument for an alternative theory, viewpoint or methodology. So I wanted to hear what he had to say, and got the book. Now you can read the book if you want to, which I encourage you to do, but in this interview I wanted to understand where Carsten was coming from when he wrote this, what has changed, and get a feel for how he sees these myths as a challenge for safety practice, or maybe how he was trying to challenge the thinking of safety practitioners like you and me. Here’s Carsten:
I know you most of you won’t have read Carsten’s book, so I won’t talk too much about specific myths. I encourage you to grab a copy for a few bucks (and no, I get no commission for sales!) and in the meantime, here’s my takeaways from that chat with Carsten
- Have a think about the myths you might hold on to, or maybe myths that pose challenges to what you are trying to influence. A myth by definition is a traditional story or belief, which is widely held, often based on history, but rarely true. How much of your safety practice is founded in fact, in evidence? I was really challenged by reading Carsten’s book, especially when he said most people don’t know James Reason’s work beyond swiss cheese (yes, I am blushing and squarely in that category). If you want to be credible, backup your practice, and challenge your assertions and find your own myths and those of others around – it will make everyone smarter, and more confident about the way forward.
- You are an untapped gold mine, you and your wealth of personal experience. I see amazing learning happening inside our growth accelerator program Safety on Tap Connected when one member, full of their own doubts, shares an experience or thought, a reflection wholly made up of their worldview, for other members to learn from. Carsten has written a book, a career of reflection captured in words and given to the world, which is a huge undertaking. You don’t need to do that, but a short story, a reflective comment, a mini blog post might help many other people who can learn from your awesome and unique experience. Why not write something today, and share it around? I’d love to read that!
Now I mentioned in the interview that we’ll run a little competition – send me your favourite (or most annoying) myth, explain a little about it, why it is a myth, and what you can do to challenge it. Email it to andrew@safetyontap.com or better yet simply post it in the comments for this episode at safetyontap.com/ep055. Carsten will pick a winner, and I will send you a copy of Carsten’s book as your prize. Put your myth in the comments at safetyontap.com/ep065 or via email to andrew@safetyontap.com
Check out the full back catalogue on iTunes, Stitcher, or safetyontap.com (which is the only place to get my handwritten personal reflections on each interview, your own reflection worksheets and more!)
Until next time, what’s the one thing you’ll do to take positive, effective or rewarding action, to grow yourself, and drastically improve health and safety along the way. Seeya!
I’ll also send you the links to all the available back-catalogue of reflection templates so you can access these at any time.
Andrew, I recall when this book was first published, there was lots of talk about it, then I saw something about it not being available on the market? So I gave up hope of ever reading it, now I’m going to look harder to see if I can get it.
Favorite Myth. All incidents are preventable. Same context as the example use in the pod cast, Safety is a choice. In what context are all incidents preventable, humans are not machines, we are fallible, as Todd says we just need to fail as safely as possible!
It’s available, links in the notes of this episode! But don’t buy it yet – you might just win the competition!
Thanks for your favourite myth – I’m a fan also. You’re in the draw for a copy of the book – stay tuned!
Hi Andrew and Carsten,
Loved the episode, especially hearing your voice Carsten, so humble and quiet yet so very wise. Thank you. My ‘Myth,’ one I have baulked against for years was being told over and over on every new site by my ‘leaders’ when I was an advisor working FIFO, ‘You can’t get too close to the crew Drewie, they won’t listen to you when you have to ‘tell them off’ you are not here to be their friend, don’t drink with them after work, they won’t trust you being so friendly anyway’ Naturally this is such bullsh*t. I went on as usual, forming very close relationships with every crew, drank with them often. Within 2 swings, without fail, the boss apologised as saw the results in the field. So guess I was a ‘Mythbuster’ Love your work Andrew keep it up, you know I love you Carstenxx
What a great example Drewie! What better way to test myths than to challenge them in the real world! What I love is that you weren’t worried about being right (although you were confident in your approach), I suspect you would be a humble learner even if it went the other way.
I saw an episode of NCIS last night, where the ‘safety officer’ on a ship had been killed. No one was surprised, they had access to all areas, significant authority, and abused that power all the time. Sounds familiar….
If that’s the approach, which seems to be in the general direction of the ‘advice’ you got, we might not end up dead, but it definitely won’t help our cause, or the end-goal – helping everyone stay alive and healthy!
You’re in the running for a copy of Carsten’s book, stay tuned!
Thanks and yes I hope to have been a humble learner if it had gone the other way, never did never has in over 25 years! I was nearly dead on a site, well several times yet that is another story, this one though was because I was a safety weirdo, no one could believe I was targeted (as was the construction manager on site along with others) everyone ‘loved us’ so they said. Turned out old mate had a arsonist mentality – disturbing. He lit fires under dongas, we put them out. (He helped before we knew who it was) then when went back to bed smoke in my room, yep he saw me to my door then lit a fire under my donga, unbelievable. We found 5 more set and ready to be lit. Scary stuff all kept very secret squirrel, my boss slept on a swag on my floor in my donga for 3 nights till we nailed the culprit. Any who never a dull moment ey!!
I enjoyed the podcast, keep them going Andrew and many thanks for your work and efforts. For me the Myth I’d like to bust and the sentence that I keep hearing it is “safety is my first priority!”. Such BS, I’d like to make our people understand that I am not here to hear them say that and that it is in fact not true, as their roles/jobs have other priorites. As I recently heard and stuck on my mind Safety is an “outcome”, obvioulsy from the choices we/they make.
Thanks for the encouragement Maria!
You’ve touched on a great myth, one that usually results in bottles and sharp objects being thrown at me, when I challenge it!
Cheers, you’re in the running for a copy of Carsten’s book, stay tuned!
Oh Yeah, my favourite myth – When assessing risk you cannot reduce the consequence!
I’m guilty of promoting that myth in my early career….just goes to show that a little bit of logic combined with rigid tools like 2 factor risk assessment constrain our thinking. Thanks, you’re in the running for a copy of Carsten’s book, stay tuned!